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trying to get to 5.0
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3426
Location: Houston,Texas
345037.68 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:56 pm    Post subject: trying to get to 5.0 Reply with quote

the little Austin needs some more power. it will run 5.30 consistently, regardless of good/bad air. problem is, i need to get it to 5.0. it has run 5.20s and with some careful tuning, can be there. i did look at the plugs and can probably add a couple more degrees timing. that still wont get me to 5.0.
there's no room for turbos or supercharger. nitrous is out of the question. so, im stuck doing this NA.
thought about adding 20% nitro but that seems sketchy. weve looked at different head/cam combos but everything requires a complete rebuild. the short block was just redone so, thats out of the question. custom cam and porting might be an option but who?

engine (to the best of my memory)...
582 BBC
Brodix BB3 heads (out of the box)
cam- 280/308 @050
830/810 lift
114cl
Rons alcohol injection system. sheetmetal intake with two throttle bodies.
14:1 compression

trans is a glide. converter stalls to an actual 6200.

456 gears

car with driver 2500lbs.

oh, and we have 4 weeks until the next race.

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altered
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Location: hurst,texas
1795.60 points



PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey 10 of course we know that the 2500 lbs is the real enemy here. you have a very good motor all ready to lay down a 5.30 in that weight class.
about 7 years ago i was kinda trying to do the same thing with a heavy car and did some experimenting with nitro on the dyno before running it on the track. results wernt very impressive even to 25% so i got ahold of comp cams and had them design a cam for the aplication. went back to the dyno and bam were on the right track now.
knowing what i know today i made a lot of mistakes back then but comp makes all my cams still. a 671 would put you right in the 4s if you can find the room. either way keep us up on the progress were all fighting the same battle

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af2
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Location: grassvalley, ca
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did I read that correct???? 830/810 and 114??? With no blower or Nitrous? You know where I am going....
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if he would let me, it would already have nitrous on it.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
Did I read that correct???? 830/810 and 114??? With no blower or Nitrous? You know where I am going....

thats kinda where im at on my blower motors. but then again ive never tried a 114 lsa on anything but a blower. seems like you would need a little more overlap

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Paul P
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it trapping right at redline? Just a stupid question. If not gearing and or tire height changes might be enough. Question Then again cam with 114 lsa is a bit odd.
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2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi
1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N.A.
6.95@98.6 MPH 1/8mi
10.97@121 MPH 1/4mi
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my bad, its a 113 lsa. don't know how much difference that makes.

no Paul, its not crossing at redline. we've discussed that too. also need to shift higher.

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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith, that cam is not scavenging the exhaust. It can't without something pushing it.

I am running 110 and it is too much... 104-108 is where you need to be.


Also I would be running a 5.38 gear minimum.

I remember when my Pops ran the 1/8th he ran a 6.14 gear but also shifted at 9500.
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Paul P
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gearing it to redline in the lights will allow it to also leave harder where you would likely get to the goal. Cam is also not quite right I agree with Adam on that. Some work involved but if you want to keep the motor sealed up a set of gears might be the answer.
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2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi
1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N.A.
6.95@98.6 MPH 1/8mi
10.97@121 MPH 1/4mi
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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Location: Houston,Texas
345037.68 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just pulled the heads off. we are going to send them to a local guy and see what he can do with the ports. also have lots of V to P clearance so, we're going to mill them for a little more compression.

shifting at 7400, it goes through the traps at 7000 in the 1/8, 7400 in the 1/4. im hoping he will let me put some gears in it too. think we need to bring our shift up to about 7800.

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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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Location: Houston,Texas
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

on an unrelated topic.... the cylinder walls had fine surface rust on them. i assume that's caused by sitting for a few days after running the alcohol? should we dump in some race gas and run it for a few minutes after the races?
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Paul P
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Location: Townsend, Mass.
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Port work with more air and the milling for a bit more compression should raise the peak HP and torque a bit. Should be a good shot at it.

You could fog it after each race. With running it with a little race gas too I suppose.

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi
1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N.A.
6.95@98.6 MPH 1/8mi
10.97@121 MPH 1/4mi
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3426
Location: Houston,Texas
345037.68 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i did the math this morning. the actual compression was 13.4. bad news is, the intake valve is so close to the deck, the heads cant be milled very much. i can go with a thinner gasket but then im concerned about screwing up quench. it had a .051 gasket. they are at the machine shop right now. hes going to flow them and let me know what can be done.
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

13.4 is low when drinking...

The 113 should only be used on a Hemi because of the straight shot to the exhaust valve.

You could easily use a .041 gasket IF the clearance is .005.

Everyone I know that runs alky shuts it down with race gas.

Last is the fact every A gas and B gas cars I have been around are shifting at 8500+ 632" A gas and 565" B gas. The 565" was faster in the 1/8th because of the gearing.
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10sec.et
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Location: Houston,Texas
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

af2 wrote:

You could easily use a .041 gasket IF the clearance is .005.


clearance where? depending on what the machinist says, im planning on using a .030 or .040 gasket.

i think it has 4.56 gears now. go to 4.88 or steeper than that?

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