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sleeving head bolt holes
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10sec.et
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like you have done this before. excellent 1st post Cool . one question still remains though.......... how much interference fit ???? seems its between .003-.005 ????
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DeStroked
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, been a journeyman machinist since 1978...mostly prototype development. To answer your question: With the Permatex sleeve retainer you'd be fine with as much as .003" clearance (slip-fit), and for a light press you don't want to exceed .0005-.001 interference on a .625" diameter piece. You do not want to create excessive axial pressure in the casting surrounding the sleeve.

For future reference get yourself a copy of "Machinery's Handbook", for everything about press fits and anything else regarding machining practices. For practical purposes, having .003" interference on a .625" diameter would be like having .015" interference on a 3.000" diameter workpiece.

The tooling I suggested are inexpensive "fractional" size reamers. The DOM tubing will be very consistent dimensionally but you still need to carefully mic the OD. If you find, for example, that your tube actually mic's at .627" OD then obtain a "decimal" size reamer .6260"-.6265" OD. Alternatively, if you find the OD at .625"-.626" you'll be fine with the 5/8" fractional reamer.

EDIT: Thought I'd add this. If you're down on bucks for decimal reamers, just have the 5/8" fractional reamer to work with, and your tube stock is over .626" OD... here's what I'd do:

Run the 17/32" reamer on the sleeve ID and put on the 30 degree chamfer. Slap a live-center in the tailstock to support the sleeve. Run your spindle at 2000 RPM. Take a clean mill-bastard lathe file and wrap it (lengthwise) with a strip of 240-grit aluminum oxide.

Using light pressure, working from right to left, and cutting only on the forward file stroke, take two passes on the length of the sleeve then mic the OD to see where you're at. 240-grit will cut quick so (until you get a feel for it) just two light passes at a time then mic it. Your max is .626" diameter, min can be as low as .623" diameter. Shoot for .6255" diameter... and use the Permatex sleeve retainer!

Best regards,

DeStroked


Last edited by DeStroked on Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, i spent some time with the drill press today and quickly found out that the table was about 1 off Head Bang . after drilling the first hole i looked inside and was off center at the bottom by about .008-.010. this was with a 39/64 bit (.609). so, i chucked up a 5/8 bit, fixed the drill press table and straightened the hole up. of course, it now measures .630. now, before i catch sh!t for doing this on a drill press instead of a mill, it simply is not feaseable to use one since i have to go across town to my machinists shop and use his. i have a drill press in my garage. anyway, now that i have this oversize hole im debating on wether or not to open them all up to this size or just leave the one. thoughts.........
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DeStroked
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK...calm down...this can be fixed, just don't drill anymore holes right now!

When you are machining components that have to assemble in close tolerance fits, don't ever start making chips until you have all your material sitting on the work bench.

Before you open up anymore bolt holes get online and get the DOM tubing first! I went back to their site and reread the specs: OD = .625 -0.000/+0.005. In other words, the tube size will be a minimum of .625" to a maximum of .630".

After you get the DOM tubestock mic the OD to see what it actually measures then get the correct reamer size for a .0005-.001 inteference fit, and/or use the lathe file with abrasive strip technique (outlined in my previous post) to make the tube diameter fit the reamer size to achieve a .0005-.001 interference fit.

A drill press will work just fine...but you've got to be patient and methodical to achieve accuracy. First know that you will never produce an accurate and repeatable bore diameter with a drill bit, and I mean never.

A drill bit is a rough machining tool that produces a bore that's neither round or straight. That's why I suggested the 39/64" drill to rough, and the 5/8" reamer to finish. A straight flute reamer is an end cutting finish tool and the only way to hold the tolerance and accuracy you need, especially in this situation where the hole breaks out into the port.

Here's a quick and accurate way to set a drill press spindle concentric and perpendicular to an existing bolt hole:

Chuck a piece of "drill rod", with a 30 degree chamfer, that's .002" smaller than the existing bolt hole diameter.

1]With the spindle off, lower the spindle until the drill rod begins to enter the bolt hole in the head.
2]Lock the spindle clamp.
3]Loosen the table angle clamp just enough that you can move the table by tapping one end or the other with a deadblow mallet, and be sure the table swing clamp is locked solid.
4]Unlock the spindle clamp.
5]Slowly lower the drill rod into the bolt hole and as soon as you feel the tiniest resistance on the spindle feed handle begin gently tapping one end or the other of the table until you can lower the drill rod all the way without any resistance. As you tap the table square you will also need to very gently tap the head left, right, forward, or back at the same time.
6]Now rotate the chuck by hand as you raise and lower the spindle to be sure you're not binding anywhere. When you're good, lower the drill rod all the way into the bolt hole and lock the spindle.
7]Lock the table angle clamp.
8]Lightly clamp the head to the table.
9]Unlock the spindle clamp and check it one more time to be sure nothing moved when you locked the table and clamped the head.
10]Repeat for each hole.(you probably won't need to adjust the table again but you'll definitely need to tap the head into alignment before clamping it down)

Once you're aligned you must drill and ream the hole, in place, before breaking the setup and moving to the next hole...this is critical. And don't worry about your .630" diameter hole you already drilled; the Permatex Sleeve Retainer can handle it.

Best regards,

DeStroked
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, i ordered the 5/8 reamer. im just going to make one oversize sleeve for the larger hole if the 5/8 DOM is too loose. the rest are drilled to 39/64. thanks.

what sucks is that i have shoulder surgery wednesday and may not be able to finish this for a while. thats why i was eager to get started now. oh well, hopefully i just need a tune-up and not a major overhaul Rolling Eyes .

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DeStroked
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear you have to have surgery...good luck! Keep me posted on the sleeve work.

Best regards,

DeStroked
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af2
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeStroked wrote:
For practical purposes, having .003" interference on a .625" diameter would be like having .015" interference on a 3.000" diameter workpiece.



I appreciate the heads up!!! It has been 20 years and the mind forgets.
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af2
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Negate my previous post!

Why the hell would you slop permatex is the hole and not wonder why it is not straight?

That is absurd!!!
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10sec.et
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam, i think something got lost in the translation. he said i need to use a reamer to get the hole straight. the drill bit is not accurate enough.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to clarify something. I am a journeyman machinist. After a four year apprenticeship, I earned journeyman status in 1978. The journeymen who taught me my trade were the machinists who carried this country through WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. In 1992 I earned master machinist status. My career has dominantly been in aerospace and military prototype development work. That means working directly with scientists and engineers who have a concept that must be developed into a prototype.

A prototype is used as part of the product design process to allow scientists, and engineers the ability to explore design alternatives, test theories, and confirm performance. In addition to the above criteria, I'm also responsible for ensuring that the machining processes are practical and cost effective prior to entering production.

I almost exclusively use manual equipment in my work. CNC is the preferred process for production but totally unsuited for development of complex protypes. I know a little bit about making chips.

I apologize for not being more clear about my reasons for the suggestions I made regarding installation of these sleeves. Without thinking, I made the assumption that forum members would know what I know........

If you wanted an interference fit between a solid piece of .625" diameter steel and were pressing it into another piece of solid steel, with a very heavy cross section, you could use as much as .005" interference which is considered a "heavy" interference fit.

In this case a .625" diameter steel cylinder, approximately 3.000" in length, with a wall section of .047" is being pressed into a porous aluminum casting, with a relatively light cross section. In addition, the location of this sleeve dictates that the receiving bore will break through one side of the porous aluminum casting for a distance of approximately 3/4" of the length of the 3.000" receiving bore. This location in the porous aluminum casting is also subject to high compressive loading, ie; head bolt torque. This, in itself, creates localized stress in this immediate area of the porous, light cross section, aluminum casting.

Given these parameters, my suggestions were based on producing an installation that does not create additional stress in this localized area of the porous aluminum casting, retains the structural integrity of the original porous aluminum casting, and ensure that no vacuum leakage occur between the intake port up to the clamping suface of the underside of the headbolt.

I suggested a machining process that included a maximum interference, between sleeve and bore, of .001", and a minimum interference of .0005". When used as I suggested, these tolerances are easily achievable with a properly ground 6-flute finishing reamer. Considering that access to a Bridgeport or similar milling machine might not be an option, I outlined the machining process for a drill press setup. I also considered that machining errors could produce an oversize (slip-fit) bore diameter.

The purpose of producing a rough bore using a drill bit approximately .015" smaller than the finished diameter, and then finishing with a reamer, is twofold: [1] as the drill bit breaks into the port the drill bit will no longer be supported on its periphery and will "walk" off of it's original centerline producing a hole wherein the the centerline at the bottom of the hole may be off as much as .010" from it's centerline at the top of the hole. The effect produces a hole whose sides are curved rather than straight.[2] Using a properly ground 6-flute finishing reamer will both straighten the hole and produce the correct bore tolerance.

I suggested Permatex High Temperature Sleeve Retainer simply because it's readily available to the consumer market, and meets Mil-R-46082B Type II specifications. It is not some gasket sealer that's "slopped" into the hole. Mil-R-46082B Type II sleeve retainer fills the microscopic voids between the mating surfaces, and will fill axial clearance up to .007". When cured for 24 hours Mil-R-46082B Type II sleeve retainer provides a shear strength of over 3,000 psi at a continuous temperature of 300 degrees fahrenheit.

Best Regards,

DeStroked


Last edited by DeStroked on Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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10sec.et
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK...calm down... Laughing


back on topic, i spent some time with the intake ports today and im going to end up sleeving the pushrod holes too. these are going to be thinner than the ones on the head bolt holes since they just need to seal the runner. i will be able to open up the pushrod pinch about .150 even with the sleeve in place.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

please stick around DeStroked!!!!!!

your a fart smeller Laughing Laughing

er uh..smart feller

its good to have a brain to pick

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af2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10sec.et wrote:
Adam, i think something got lost in the translation.



I hate typing v.s. talking.

Things get taken wrong. I appologize to Destroked, I totally mistook what you typed.
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DeStroked
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
10sec.et wrote:
Adam, i think something got lost in the translation.



I hate typing v.s. talking.

Things get taken wrong. I appologize to Destroked, I totally mistook what you typed.



Hey...It's cool, Bro. Ain't nuthin' but a thing. After all that (when I'm not building shit for NASA) I'm wrenchin' on my own rigs or somebody else's every chance I get!

Rebuilt my first engine when I was 14 (1957 Chrysler 300C , 392 Hemi, 9.25:1 compression, 375 HP) and drag raced the Hell out of that 300C until I was 17. And despite my age I'm still that same kid!

Best regards,

DeStroked
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of my first "hot rod" I found this pic of a '57 300C that's the spitting image, right down to the cream white, of the one I owned (minus the whitewalls!).



Best regards,

DeStroked
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