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rear end question

 
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87IrocTim
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: rear end question Reply with quote

ok so im buying my friend joshes camaro, the one that died early december. the rear end in his 88 has disk brakes, a 3 series 3.42 posi rear end. after i bought it, i was going to switch his rear end onto mine, and mine onto his, and during that process, i was going to install my 4.11 ring and pinion, figuring that it would be easiest with both rear ends on the table and off the cars. my question is, if i had a book of the torque specs and basically the process of installing it, would it be possible for myself to do it? i kno there is a huge and precise method to it or it will eat itself up. if i wasnt able to, would it be pricey to have a mechanic do it if the rear end is off the car and on a table? basically, how much is there really to do to install it properly?
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need some specialized fixtures, or at the very least two good articulated magnetic mount dial indicator holders with a easy to read dial indicator. You will also need a 0-1" outside micrometer to measure the shims. Torque wrench 1/4" beam type. Torque wrench 1/2 drive ratcheting type, 3/4" drive beam type, four to six feet of 1-1/2" pipe with a piece of 1/4" flat steel welded on one end about 4" square that you are going to drill out with your rear yoke bolt pattern. Large pry bar, box of band-aides a bucket full of patience. You have to get a rebuild kit for the rear end you want to put back on the road, (at the bare minimum a new crush sleeve for the pinion). Four quarts of 85-105 gear lube fluid and posi-traction additive.

Remove rear inspection cover and drain fluid from the donor rear end. Remove bolts from the main saddles holding each rear cap in place (do not mix up location of caps just like main bearing caps they can not be swapped around). Carefully pry out each shim pack from each side of the carrier and record the measurements of the thickness of each shim as measured with the micrometer. Keep the records as to side load accurate (don't mix them up as to right and left as you will be doing the same for the other rear end). With the shim packs removed and main caps off pry out the carrier. Now we need to accurately measure from the top of the main cap down to the top of the pinion gear (also record all numbers as written on the gear). There is a specialized fixture I have for 12 bolts that allows a direct reading from a round machined bridge down to the top of the gear using a six inch rod that goes through my dial indicator to make this job easier and more accurate; and I'm sure there exists one made for the 7.5" rear end as well but we are trying to get by (though I would recommend taking the whole thing to a rear end specialist). Once you have the information the locates the pinion installed depth and the side loads you can remove the nut on the pinion and remove it from the housing. Note there is a shim pack between the crush sleeve and the shoulder of the pinion gear. Measure the thick ness of each of these shims as well and do not mix with the axle shims as they are different in size. You can now remove the ring gear from the carrier and go to the other rear end.

We are now going to reverse everything that we did before only now it gets difficult, because everything has to go back together with a +/- of 0.003" of an inch. You must mount the ring gear and shim it side to side with the steel shims so that you get a correct wear pattern on the teeth of the gears (of ya add white lead marking paste of things to buy) while simultaneously moving the pinion in and out of the housing to get the correct installed depth (we measured that accurately I hope).

If this is starting to sound like more than $250 dollars worth of work to you I agree with you. I know how to set up rear ends (12 bolts anyway) and have the specialized tools to perform the work, but I'm too lazy (easily frustrated) to even attempt it any more. I let a friend of mine that taught me how to do this 36 years ago do it now for me now because this whole procedure is a royal pain in the rear-end.

If you are still interested there are several articles written over time that are archived on Primedia's web site with detailed pictures of each step and showing lots of pictures.


Big Dave
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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Location: Houston,Texas
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can PM you some specs and remove/install instructions but the problem is going to be checking your clearances and pre-load on the bearings. you can reuse the old bearings but you still need a new crush collar and you have to make sure the backlash and pinion depth is correct. without the correct tools or LOTS of experience it will be difficult to set it up correctly. if you have the tools, let me know and i will send you the info and you can decide from there if you want to do it.
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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Location: Houston,Texas
347040.52 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dammit Dave Laughing i figured either you or af2 would beat me on this post Rolling Eyes
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10sec.et wrote:
dammit Dave Laughing i figured either you or af2 would beat me on this post Rolling Eyes


Laughing Laughing Laughing Wink
I would have to be there when Tim sets it up. There are some things you can't explain with writing!
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Paul P
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A case spreader is nice to have and makes removing and re-installing the carrier a lot easier. Just my 2 cents.
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87IrocTim
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i for the most part understood the directions, it was more of the tool use and how to use them which is messing with my head. im going to update you all when i get both of the rear ends off. 250 dollars will be very managable by next spring, although i would love the experience. also, is the master cylinder in my car the same? just double checking because my car is originally drum brakes in the rear. after the rear end is complete, i am also going to wrap things up with a locktite mini locker, not bad for only 300 beans. one i have saved enough for a ford 9" and a 4.11 third member, i was going to put my 7.5 inch 4.11 back on joshes, so both cars would have a solid drivetrain.

oh by the way, i figured ide let you all kno that i managed to make honor role, so my old man said when spring comes, the cars getting all of the body work and paint done by benny carpenter, the best painter known in our area. he priced out about 4500, 2500 with standard paint, but im not standard Laughing . the plan is to go with jet black with dark red stripes, or a strong bright red with slightly darker red stripes. both paint jobs including a light metal flake. i do have to buy a new hood before this process, going for a 2 or 3 inch cowl, so i can fit weiand's version of the rpm air gap manifold with a phenolic spacer, and my matching 10 inch elite air cleaner with a 3 inch filter, so if anyone is interested in a weiand x-celerator let me know.

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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The master is different because there is no residual valve leaving pressure to the rear brakes.

Glad you are on the honer roll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now if I can get my youngest to do it!! Rolling Eyes
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Af2 is exactly right on the master cylinder. I have pulled them out of the front on my Nova and used the smaller bore non-power master cylinder for a disc / drum setup. Also - great job on the honor roll! Clay
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87IrocTim
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha thanks, ok then thats not a big deal i can just change the master cylinders over temporarily until i can manage two new ones.
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