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building a bb chevy and need help for all the parts

 
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rionb83
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject: building a bb chevy and need help for all the parts Reply with quote

seems like this is mainly a racers forum Sad but anyways im currently trying to put together a low rpm torque monster i will be using a chevy 502 for the block, now i have used camquesst dyno software and some program my brother in law has and it seems like i can make between 750-825 ft lbs of torque and its on a flat peak range of 1000rpm all the way to 3500rpm, i need something that has torque like that for a long range. my question is can anyone help me out with actual parts to use(crank,cam,heads, and everthing else inside a motor) so i can actually start to aquire the parts to put together my motor? and any tips to increase how much torque i can get would be great i want max torque and i want it to be able to be from 1000-1500 rpm range for the low end of the power band to 3000-3500 on the top range you know a really long flat spot of max torque. this motor is being used in a 6x6 truck thats why im using low rpm torque and i need it to run on pump gas so i cant go much higher then 10.5:1 compression and i will be using a holley truck avenger 770 cfm carb thanks for any help/info

ps money is not an issue so any company and any parts that will work would be nice Smile
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cummins!!!! Laughing


OH throw that Cam crap as far as you can! Rolling Eyes
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love a money is no object build! Though that usually changes when you get the bill.

Bow tie 502 block can accept on paper a 4.500 crank maximum. I found it wouldn't fit due to cam interference (high lift lobes and a half inch extra stroke come to close for my tastes. So for that reason I went with a 4.375" stroke. Next issue is the Siamese bores are no where near as thick as those found in the Dart Big "M" block which weighs in a 47 pounds heavier. Admittedly not all of the weight is in the cylinder walls but there is over thirty pounds in extra cast iron in just the cylinders (the rest is in the deck thickness increase and in the bottom of the block's main webbing) so you are limited on your maximum bore as well.

I settled for a Big M block, Callies crank, Howard’s rods, and JE custom made pistons (this was before Ross or Mahle became the piston of choice as I built the motor eight years ago). I chose these manufactures because the parts were at the time forged and machined in the USA (it is a fetish I have) that prevents me from going with a cheaper part.

Next you have to decide which heads you want and since price is no object then I would recommend some 12 degree Big Chiefs (you have to have the pistons that fit the heads as even a 15 degree piston will not work on a 12 degree head because of the combustion chamber shape (volume) and valve angle). You obviously buy the heads bare and have them ported by your favorite guru, and then either have your head man assemble the heads for you (I do recommend this step as the required springs are pretty stiff and requires that they be set up correctly along with a five angle valve job with the correct width to both cool the valve and maximize breathing). I like titanium Ferrea 2.450" inch intakes with Inconel sodium filled exhaust valves (I can not afford them, but I like them; but what the heck it's your dime).

Do not disregard a tunnel ram. I know you're building a truck pull kind of motor; but there is a lot to be said for a tunnel ram even at low RPM's. It lets the motor think it has individual runners even though you have a plenum and two fours on top. As to the carb's in the lower RPM's, and being limited in cubic inches by your choice of a standard deck height block you may not want to mount split 4500 1150's. You would probably build more torque with 4150's and they behave better at mid throttle.

I will not address cam choices as that is the last thing you buy before you screw it together. But I would run a solid roller due to the lift requirements to make a larger motor breath (high lifts that are unobtalable from a hydraulic roller. Besides the big valves and large ports require offset tappets that would collapse a hydraulic roller into a pile of loose parts if put to the test.

I do not know where you live, but I used to have a big semi drop off two 55 gallon drums at a time of racing gas before the Homeland Security outlawed home delivery (it isn't really illegal but now you have to sign forms and they get excited about the empties and they want a detailed explanation of why you want gasoline in the first place), and 55 gallon drums (it ships in a 42 gallon drum now as the largest size available or you can pay extra for a pallet full of five gallon cans which I will admit is more convenient and doesn't require a hand crank gas pump (I had one already for the tractor). Reason I bring it up you build power with compression and you can not have too much (with in reason).

You can find 582's turn key starting a $17,000 running up to $36,500 depending upon the name on the valve cover and your choice of parts. With a 4.500 inch crank you can build a on paper a 572 motor with your 502 block, but since money is no object I would look to the Dart.

Big Dave
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10sec.et
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
Cummins!!!! Laughing


exactly what i was thinking. that or a Powerstroke with a biga$$ turbo.

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FRITODAVE
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would go with BigDaves build and put a couple of propane carbs on that tunnel ram. You could also raise the compression with propane. What you lose with propane over gasoline you will gain most back with higher compression.
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:40 am    Post subject: Re: building a bb chevy and need help for all the parts Reply with quote

rionb83 wrote:

now i have used camquesst dyno software and some program my brother in law has and it seems like i can make between 750-825 ft lbs of torque and its on a flat peak range of 1000rpm all the way to 3500rpm, i need something that has torque like that for a long range.

ps money is not an issue so any company and any parts that will work would be nice Smile



Did you guys read the OP question????????????????????

Cummins?? I don't see a gas engine even close.
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rionb83
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:53 am    Post subject: Re: building a bb chevy and need help for all the parts Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
rionb83 wrote:

now i have used camquesst dyno software and some program my brother in law has and it seems like i can make between 750-825 ft lbs of torque and its on a flat peak range of 1000rpm all the way to 3500rpm, i need something that has torque like that for a long range.

ps money is not an issue so any company and any parts that will work would be nice Smile



Did you guys read the OP question????????????????????

Cummins?? I don't see a gas engine even close.


for what i can put together well on camquest if you put in 502 on carbs no computer, put the bore at 4.500, put cylinder heads as 2-Valve, Wedge, All-Out Porting And Mods, 10.5:1 compression, tunnel ram max flow, large tube headers open exhaust then you should get 737 ft lbs of torque now it is at 4000 rpm but im not really using that dyno software i would have to look up what program my bro in law is using but on his i can get slightly higher torque at the low rpm range i put in my post and like i said in that post "it seems like i could" meaning it looks possible hence why im asking for help


Last edited by rionb83 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:00 am; edited 2 times in total
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rionb83
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks to the people helping me out with my project with that said i am not using diesel if was i would of posted that instead of the motor i want to use so quit putting up shit on diesel and if i was to go diesel it would not be a powerstroke thanks Smile
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rionb83 wrote:
thanks to the people helping me out with my project with that said i am not using diesel if was i would of posted that instead of the motor i want to use so quit putting up shit on diesel and if i was to go diesel it would not be a powerstroke thanks Smile



Ok, Won't happen again. I don't blame you not going with a Power stroke! Laughing

There is no helping out the reality of a gas engine is NOT going to put the 750+ TQ/HP or whatever below the 3500 mark you have set.

Most of us here at Smokem up use real #'s.
If you want a torque monster at 5000 then it is worth a conversation. This 1000 to 3500 stuff is made for Diesel's.
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10sec.et
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im guessing youre a contractor and youre building this per customer specs ????

what about supercharging ? maybe a small twin centrifugal supercharger setup ? or does it have to be n/a ?

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rionb83
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no im not a contractor just trying to do a torque monster with gas, i have thought about something like a cat motor for diesel i would have a big enough truck to do it with Smile

after putting in the numbers on camquest for using a Dart tall deck block with 4.700 cylinder bore, 4.375 stroke like was suggested to me and going with a tunnel ram max flow w/ 1500 total cfm off carbs i can get 834.5 ft lbs of torque @ 3500 rpm so dont tell me i cant do a low rpm torque monster Sad i have faith that it can be done
however you might be right about the 1000 starting point for my high torque looks like i might have to settle for a higher number but i can do about 2000-3500 rpm range for my torque peak
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get with Daryl. You might get educated.



http://www.revolutionaryperformance.com/
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FRITODAVE
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you should do what BIGDAVE said and I don't always agree with BIGDAVE. Computer dyno simulations are just that. You will get some real world stump pulling numbers if you go with BIGDAVE's build up. Just stick with a small roller cam and a tranmission with lots of gears and you will love it better than any diesel out there. Diesels have their place and I personally feel it should be in the heavy duty industry (ie BIG TRUCKS) Smile .
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