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right housing
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alfonsothefons
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Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 154
Location: conyers ga
4535.02 points


1978 Chevrolet Malibu

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:44 pm    Post subject: right housing Reply with quote

i am looking to run bonneville with the montebu
and would like to figure which rear end housing to purchase as far as ring size to manage gear ratio, i think i might need a 10 in ring for 300mph run ,i can only purchase 29 in tall tires rated for that
speed,i do not know if i will go that fast but would like the reserved top end capibility.
also anybody have experience with watts link suspension considering it for the new chassis vs my current 4link any comments

yes i will have new motor for this project,, it will be a 1500 hp 500 in alum big block with twin t72 turbos,wating for motor info from speed shop
i really want that 200 mph club before the track goes away
any b-ville vets out there would like safety info and insight.
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Big Dave
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Posts: 2663
Location: Tampa Florida
120538.84 points



PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most guys on the salt run quick change rear-ends to be able to tune that on the day of the attempt. Which is based on the old '29 - '36 Ford Banjo rear ends out of the model A which I think had an 8.5" ring gear or there abouts (been a while since I've seen one, and I'm old as dirt).

Big Dave
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alfonsothefons
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Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 154
Location: conyers ga
4535.02 points


1978 Chevrolet Malibu

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you mean a halibrand? do you have to have a big ring to run big speed? or am i wrong?
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af2
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5578
Location: grassvalley, ca
71864.50 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alfonsothefons wrote:
you mean a halibrand? do you have to have a big ring to run big speed? or am i wrong?


Halibrand. Most are 9" and that's all you need! 2.00 gears have a big pinion! They don't need a bigger ring gear! Good luck on the 200mph club! I don't think Bonneville will be shut down in the next 10 years!
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af2
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5578
Location: grassvalley, ca
71864.50 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont meen to sound bad : You're avitar is bugging the hell out of me!!!! Stop that thing from dancing please!!! Oh crap I am going to get it now!!!
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alfonsothefons
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Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 154
Location: conyers ga
4535.02 points


1978 Chevrolet Malibu

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the same avatar ahem af2 does get old
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af2
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5578
Location: grassvalley, ca
71864.50 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alfonsothefons wrote:
the same avatar ahem af2 does get old

Cool ! I was totally scrwen with you !!! Geese I didn't think you would change!! I apologize for being a DICK! I will shut the hell up from now on!
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alfonsothefons
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Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 154
Location: conyers ga
4535.02 points


1978 Chevrolet Malibu

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anybody on the watts link question?

Last edited by alfonsothefons on Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Watts linkage is just a proportioning bar that keeps the rear end from moving side to side. If you currently have a four link now you have either a Watts linkage or a Panhard bar to center the rear end (unless you are using the top two rods set at a 45° angle which few outside of the factory do because it will bind with just Heim joints as it will need to be mounted with spherical bearings). The Watt’s linkage has several disadvantages for a road racer or street driven car as it is much more difficult to engineer and must be quite strong (robust parts are heavy parts). Drag racers and any other straight line application (salt flats) love them because there is no variation in the center of the rear end as it traverses from full deflection to full unload.

I would recommend reading and understanding the principles expressed in Herb Adams’ Chassis Engineering book. (Herb was the principle design engineer for Pontiac and is responsible for the handling of the Trans Am and the IROC Z-28 as well as many other project cars from GM). For a door slammer drag car you can not beat Dave Morgan’s (of Pro Stock fame) book aptly titled "Door Slammers: the Chassis Book.

Big Dave
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alfonsothefons
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Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 154
Location: conyers ga
4535.02 points


1978 Chevrolet Malibu

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have a wishbone style locator in the rear with the right bearings along with 4 link ,koni coil overs shocks ,currently
with a dodge 8 3/4 rear with a drop out center chunk like the ford 9

now liberty vs t56 transzilla vs auto for distance run which is best
i have older Rockland gears viper t56 that needs rebuilding or trade for one of trannies mentioned and a tranzilla is $7k and same for liberty ,
you would think manual 6 speed to keep motor in rpm range
i heard high rpm drama for the t56 from other sites and concerned about that issue.
,i found a watts link company,
www. lateraldynamics.com that build these setups ,they look pretty decent,anybody use these , it looks preetty trick.



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alfonsothefons
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Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 154
Location: conyers ga
4535.02 points


1978 Chevrolet Malibu

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:04 pm    Post subject: watts link Reply with quote

thought you guys would want to see this set up ,look at my prior comment pictures
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af2
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Location: grassvalley, ca
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is literally tons of pressure on the center of a Watts linkage. That being said I am looking for some pictures I took of my 62 Willys with a parallel Watts linkage that broke the 3/4" pivot bolt! After that left hand hand full I went to the reserved pan hard rod! The best thing the double parallel has is the ability to center the axle no matter where it is vertical! In the same contrast You have way more leverage than expected. Try and sheer a 3/4" bolt and you will understand My being there!!!
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alfonsothefons
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Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 154
Location: conyers ga
4535.02 points


1978 Chevrolet Malibu

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alfonsothefons wrote:


now liberty vs t56 transzilla vs auto for distance run which is best
i have older Rockland gears viper t56 that needs rebuilding or trade for one of trannies mentioned and a tranzilla is $7k and same for liberty ,
you would think manual 6 speed to keep motor in rpm range
i heard high rpm drama for the t56 from other sites and concerned about that issue.
any thoughts on this, i looked deep into this and there is a
part replacement of synchros called face platting and proshifting the 2 are for a faster shifts,anybody done this to their t56?
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonneville is just like flying a fighter airplane. Speed=Power. To go really fast you have to have a lot of horsepower (not torque which accelerates the vehicle but horse power or sustained levels of torque over time). That being said, certain products have a design limitation. That is when the engineer who designed the product was told the application for his product he was told it will have defined set parameters.

Because of this you will not find a large number of rubber band powered cars on the salt. Variable Sheave pulley cars which can have a wide smooth infinite number of gear changes from the lowest speed to the highest speed (reason being there is an upper limit on the horse power that the transmission can transmit). For the same reason no one runs Dana and Eaton gear boxes out of semi trucks, they can handle the torque of a Caterpillar V-12 engine but only at 3,600 RPM.

You need to find a transmission that can handle the desired number of horse power to obtain your speed (to push enough air out of the way of a van, or a square box, will be higher than an aerodynamic streamlined vehicle). Then you must see if the transmission has the designed limitations built in to fit your need.

The T-56 has an upper limit of around 650 horse power (may be off a few either way) but it will split the box and spit out the gears if more force is pushed through it because it has helical ground gear teeth which load the bearings and the case to keep noise down. Lenco, Liberty and Nash are all specialty transmission companies (remember your economies of scale, high number of units with low demand means cheap, low demand and low number of units means expensive). They fill a niche market’s desire for noisy, strong gear boxes for the automotive enthusiast. They due this by either taking a stock production gear box and modifying it with custom machined gear sets (Nash and Liberty) or they manufacture a gear box from scratch to meet a desired product specification (Lenco).

If the web and magazines report that a T-56 will not go past a certain limit, then I have no reason to doubt it. If a magazine says that Product "X" is the greatest thing since sliced bread and Product "X" happens to be buying advertising space in the magazine then I am justified in being skeptical.

I am a little confused by your fluctuating goals and avatars. What are you attempting to do. Do you wish to be the first to launch a van into unguided flight (predict VR to be around 120 MPH) as a box is the antithesis of aerodynamic. Vans were designed to maximize cargo capacity (the cube epitomizes cubic feet), not set land speed records. The Van was chosen for the Scooby Doo show to increase sexual tension amongst the characters in hopes of driving ratings, not for any paranormal or supernatural reasons.

Even Professor Stephen Hawking’s has had to admit that causality does exist (his prior theorems on black holes had predicted a dualality in the universe were cause was not linked to effect), therefore there will be consequences of your desire to take a van to Bonneville, or in running long duration cams with high compression on he street. Not saying you can not do it, I am saying we know from experience (and sound engineering theory) what the effects will be if you try. This board has a high concentration of knowledgeable participants if you wish to share their experience listen, if you wish to experiment feel free to do so, but please report your findings here so that we can verify our theories. That is how the scientific method works.


Big Dave BSIE
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alfonsothefons
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Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 154
Location: conyers ga
4535.02 points


1978 Chevrolet Malibu

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:01 am    Post subject: i do not have a van got rid of malibu nose for that reason! Reply with quote

the car is being lowered ae. moving link points in 4 link and i been researching ,bellypans ,vortex generators,and spoiler set ups
new front suspension
the reason the front clip is what it is for the aerodynamics and will massage it further with lowered air dam and flow cannards

, i have contacted nelson race engines for my new motor package and we havedecided on a 1000hp twin turbo set up,to clear 250mph
,rockland gears have a tranzilla t56 that is rated at 1200 hp with new bigger and better components,
i entered this site for research purposes and not to stall in one dimension of thought
i take all info digest it and use what i can, drag racing is cool and place to test and tune but
my real dream is the bville run
will start sending progress pictures
, i am in process of moving this spring to bigger better location and stalling project till move,do not want to transport car in pieces .
research continues,
i started with the super gas idea because it felt like the hp range and class i needed to address, to test car
and wanted to be legal to hit the speeds i wanted to reach.
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